Unchained

Vy Le and Jessi Brooks trace an AI agent's sandbox escape back to crypto's own fight over open code. Plus, Plume general counsel Salman Banaei on Clarity's knife's-edge vote math.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
(use code: UNCHAINED).

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An AI agent was told to solve a problem inside a sealed sandbox. Instead it found a way out, went to Hugging Face, and took the answer.

Jessi Brooks argues that episode, Moonshot's open-weight Kimi K3 release, and Apple's trade secrets suit against OpenAI all rhyme with a fight crypto has been having for years: punish the conduct, not the code. Vy Le pushes back on whether open source can be both the disease and the cure.

Then Salman Banaei, General Counsel of Plume and a former SEC and CFTC attorney, joins to map where the Clarity Act's ethics language stands with Ruben Gallego, Thom Tillis, Kirsten Gillibrand, and Adam Schiff, and whether ten Democratic votes exist for cloture.

The conversation covers the open-weights export fight, Apple's case against OpenAI, Hester Peirce's new statement on DeFi vaults and onchain lending, and why a new FATF report makes control, not decentralization, the test that matters.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Guest:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Salman Banaei - General Counsel of Plume, Former Head of Policy at Uniswap and Chainalysis, and Former SEC and CFTC Attorney

Timestamps

🌐 04:36 Jessi on why treating Kimi K3's open weights as an export could hit crypto

✍️ 07:47 Why Jessi reads Nvidia's and Anthropic's letters as punish the conduct, not the code

🕳️ 11:41 How an OpenAI agent escaped its sandbox and found answers on Hugging Face

🍎 21:55 Apple sues OpenAI over trade secrets, and one text that could cost it

📣 28:55 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy-first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏛️ 30:57 Salman Banaei maps where Clarity's ethics language stands in the Senate

🗳️ 41:12 Why Banaei says Clarity's cloture vote is on a knife's edge

🔐 42:43 Peirce's vault statement, split into development, curation, administration

🌍 48:32 Why FATF and Clarity both make control the real test for DeFi regulation

🔮 54:36 What Banaei thinks happens to Clarity if it fails this Congress
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📢 Bits + Bips has its own channel now — full episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitsandbips 

Jensen Huang had been running the world's most valuable company for years without ever posting on X. When he finally did, it wasn't a hello. It was an open letter arguing that open AI models are a national asset — and within two days the signatory list had doubled to 50 companies.

Anthropic and Amazon still haven't signed. Austin Campbell walks the panel through who did, who didn't, and the fight that broke out underneath it: Nick Carter arguing the government doesn't owe the large labs a business model, an Anthropic researcher publicly needling Huang about open-sourcing CUDA, Andrew Ng calling that a false equivalence, and Joe Weisenthal asking whether any of it is more than virtue signaling.

Then it gets concrete. Lorenzo Valente makes the case that cheap open models aren't actually cheap once you price them per task, and asks why the US has no answer to a DeepSeek raising at a reported $70 billion valuation. Ram Ahluwalia closes with the Wright brothers, who watched Boeing and Lockheed Martin build an industry on their patents and never saw a cent of it.

So can a closed model survive being copied — or is getting copied just what happens?

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Lorenzo Valente - Director of Research at ARK Invest

This clip is from a longer conversation on the open weight versus closed weight AI fight. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/lMZtZwolaeA?si=16-Z4TP227B2OUJl 

We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET. Subscribe to catch it live.

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🚀 00:00 Jensen Huang's surprise letter reignites the AI open weight fight

💬 01:05 Nick Carter, Julian Schrittwieser, and David Sacks pile on

🔥 02:53 'Virtue signaling' and what happens if China's open models are permanent 

⚖️ 05:15 Lorenzo's balanced take: open models aren't a free panacea

💰 06:28 Lorenzo on DeepSeek and Moonshot AI's reported valuations

✈️ 09:53 Ram's closing case: capitalism, distillation, and the Wright brothers
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YC's Nemil Dalal joins to explain why he's never been more bullish as BitMEX winds down after 11 years, whether every failed crypto idea (TCRs, DAOs, creator coins) eventually works, why crypto is really about money, Base's consumer mea culpa, on-chain reputation and credit, and who pays in the x402 AI-agent era.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week they're joined by Nemil Dalal, Visiting Partner at Y Combinator and ex-Coinbase, where he led USDC and the Coinbase Developer Platform. He's here to explain why, with exchanges winding down left and right, he's somehow never been more bullish.

The crew digs into the great contrast of the moment: BitMEX shutting down after 11 years (plus BitMart, Movement Labs, Balancer Labs) while the plumbing quietly prints, and whether Imran's viral 'everything that failed will eventually work' thesis is genius or toxic positivity. From there it's the question of whether crypto is really only about money (Jesse's Base mea culpa included), a war-memories tour through TCRs, on-chain reputation and why pure on-chain credit keeps faceplanting, and finally who actually pays in the x402 AI-agent era, and whether decentralization even survives contact with Google-shaped gravity.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 BitMEX, the exchange that invented the perp swap, winds down September 23rd after 11 years, alongside BitMart, Movement Labs, and Balancer Labs.

🔹 Nemil Dalal explains why he's never been more bullish: rivals adopted BitMEX's innovations, regulatory clarity is arriving, and crypto is becoming invisible infrastructure.

🔹 Nemil rented the Chase Center for a 7,000-builder YC event with Jensen Huang, Sam Altman, and Patrick Collison, yet almost nobody's launching a token early.

🔹 Imran's viral thesis that every failed crypto idea eventually works sparks Haseeb's 'toxic positivity' pushback and a war-memories tour through TCRs and DAOs.

🔹 Instacart's Apoorva vs Webvan and Reddit vs Digg: why timing, path dependency, and the YC 'why now' question decide which failed ideas return.

🔹 Jesse's Base mea culpa: the consumer-social bet on Zora and Farcaster was wrong for now, so he handed the Base app to Kobe.

🔹 Haseeb says crypto has always been about money; Nemil counters 'money is everything,' calling the blockchain the greatest capital innovation machine in the world.

🔹 Why pure on-chain credit keeps faceplanting: address repudiation, no recourse, no wage garnishment, and old memories of Debt DAO's revenue ratchet.

🔹 The x402 AI-agent era: Cloudflare pay-per-call gating, Kimi's inference license, and whether decentralization survives Google-shaped gravity as agents become the new wallet.

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

⭐️Nemil Dalal, Visiting Partner at Y Combinator

Disclosures
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Kristin Smith walks through the vote math, the ethics fight, and what happens to crypto capital if the Clarity Act stalls before the midterms.

The Senate needs 60 votes to pass crypto's market structure bill, the Clarity Act, before an August recess deadline just weeks away. Majority Leader John Thune says the votes likely will not be there in time, and Polymarket puts the odds of passage this year at roughly 30 percent.

Kristin Smith, President of the Solana Policy Institute, joins Laura Shin to explain why a deal that seemed close has snagged on ethics language Trump agreed to but Senate Democrats do not trust the Department of Justice to enforce.

Smith walks through the vote math behind 53 Senate Republicans and the Democrats who backed last year's Genius Act, the Blockchain Regulatory Certainty Act's protections for developers, and the new commodities pathway for token launches. She also maps where the sidelined capital goes, from the Middle East to Japan, if Clarity misses its window before the midterms.

Host

Laura Shin - Founder, CEO and Host of Unchained

Guest

Kristin Smith - President of the Solana Policy Institute

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

Timestamps:

🗳️ 00:51 Why Clarity's Senate timeline looks so tight before the August recess

📣 09:20 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

⚖️ 10:16 Why Trump's ethics language deal became Clarity's toughest sticking point

🏛️ 18:34 Kristin Smith on the Clarity Act provisions that most excite the industry

🌍 23:31 What happens to crypto capital and global leadership if Clarity fails
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SPONSORED CONTENT: This video is a paid partnership with 1inch. It was produced in collaboration with 1inch and is separate from Unchained's editorial coverage.

1inch cofounder Sergej Kunz says up to 85% of DeFi's liquidity sits idle. He walks through Aqua, the self-custodial product built to put that capital back to work.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠1inch - Swap crypto at the best rates in DeFi with 1inch — and get an early look at Aqua, their new protocol that lets your liquidity do more than one job at a time https://1inch.io 

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Discover Aqua, their new shared-liquidity protocol that lets your capital power multiple DeFi strategies at once — without leaving your wallet. Learn more at https://1inch.io

1inch co-founder Sergej Kunz says he built Aqua after getting sandwiched by MEV bots while providing his own liquidity, and after 1inch's research found up to 85% of concentrated liquidity across DeFi sits idle.

Kunz walks through why he thinks liquidity pools fragment capital by design, and how Aqua's intent-based, self-custody model tries to fix that without asking users to give up control of their assets.

He covers Aqua's sub-wallet structure, how professional market makers settle trades after passing 1inch's compliance and KYB checks, and the rollout across 13 networks including Base and Robinhood's chain. Kunz also details 1inch DAO's plan to distribute USDC to liquidity providers.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠André Beganski - Host

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Sergej Kunz - Cofounder of 1inch

Timestamps

📣 00:19 Swap crypto at the best rates in DeFi with 1inch — and get an early look at Aqua, their new protocol that lets your liquidity do more than one job at a time https://1inch.io 

💧 00:40 Sergej on getting sandwiched, and why 85% of DeFi liquidity sits idle

🔬 06:15 Why Sergej says every chain shares Aqua's idle-liquidity flaw

🧩 07:16 Sub wallets: how Aqua runs positions without creating debt

🛡️ 12:10 Why 1inch keeps Aqua self custody, and the risks Sergej flags

🏦 13:24 Who Aqua is built for, and how it isolates sanctioned funds

💰 17:03 Aqua's 13 networks and the $500K DAO incentive program
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Cole Kennelly, founder and CEO of Volmex Labs, traces why BVIV and BVIV-US diverge around IBIT's regulated options market, makes the case that Ethereum, Solana, and Hyperliquid have more to gain from the Clarity Act than Bitcoin, and shares his outlook for an increasingly institutional crypto market by year-end.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich, Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Cole Kennelly - Founder and CEO of Volmex Labs

This clip is from a longer conversation on the Clarity Act's uneven impact across crypto and Volmex's institutional outlook for the market. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/9SUeqeInZws?si=gF6-ZEEy-BED-yJa 

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🎙️ 00:00 The BVIV vs. IBIT options divergence — and what it's telling traders

📊 00:31 Regulated vs. offshore: how IBIT and BVIV-US stack up

⚖️ 02:16 Why Ethereum, Solana, and Hyperliquid have more riding on Clarity than Bitcoin

⏱️ 05:11 How far out Volmex's term structure actually reaches

🔮 05:23 Cole's read on where an increasingly institutional crypto market goes next
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Jesse Pollak owns the Base App's social miss, unpacks Robinhood Chain's rise, and explains Brian Armstrong's memecoin moment.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Jesse Pollak spent the week owning a very public miss. In a lengthy post, the Base creator admitted the Base App's social bet had not worked, leaving Base behind in perps, prediction markets and tokenization, and handed the app's reins to Jordan Fish, better known as Cobie.

Pollak joins Laura Shin to unpack why the pivot happened now, what he makes of Coinbase CEO Brian Armstrong's memecoin controversy over a token called $BRIAN, and how Base plans to compete as Robinhood Chain outpaces it on daily active users, according to Artemis data.

They cover Base's move off Optimism's stack onto its own Azul, Beryl and Cobalt upgrades, a roadmap toward 20,000 transactions per second under the new B20 stablecoin standard, and the x402 agentic payments protocol already handling roughly 90% of Base's transaction volume.

Pollak argues less than 1% of the world uses crypto, and that Base's bet is on whoever builds the trusted rails first.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jesse Pollak - Creator of Base

Timestamps

🗞️ 01:48 Why Jesse Pollak feels 'fired up' despite Base App's social miss

🧭 03:58 Pollak on why the timing was wrong for Base App's social bet

💳 05:42 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy-first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🖼️ 06:39 Pollak on Brian Armstrong's Coinbaseman meme coin controversy

🏎️ 10:43 How Pollak plans to compete as Robinhood Chain overtakes Base in DAUs

🤝 12:53 Why Coinbase's distribution edge matters for onboarding new users

🔀 15:37 Why Pollak handed the Base App to Cobie to focus on the chain

🌉 18:20 Why Base App is expanding beyond Base to Solana and Bitcoin

⚙️ 21:05 Base's Azul, Beryl and Cobalt upgrades and its new B20 standard

🔐 24:27 Base Ledgers, agentic payments and privacy in Pollak's roadmap
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An OpenAI model hacked Hugging Face to cheat its own test. Kain and Taylor break it down — plus Base’s failed social bet and the North Korean IT workers still inside crypto.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Coinbase just handed Jesse Pollak’s Base app to Cobie, days after Pollak posted a public mea culpa admitting that the onchain-social and creator-coin bet behind Base never worked.

Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan trace why Base swung so hard at social instead of perps and prediction markets, and argue Coinbase’s bottomless-money culture, the same one that let Google build Android on a whim, makes it nearly impossible for founders to know when a bet has genuinely failed.

They also unpack Brian Armstrong’s memecoin profile-picture flap, arguing the outrage is almost entirely manufactured by traders chasing volatility, the North Korean IT workers still quietly inside much of the crypto industry, and the strangest story of the week: an unreleased OpenAI model that chained two zero-day exploits to escape its test sandbox and hack Hugging Face’s benchmarking servers for the answers.

The episode closes on an uncomfortable question: if a model will cheat on a security test just to avoid not knowing its score, what else will it break to get there?

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix

⁠⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Timestamps

📣 01:55 Base hands its consumer app to Cobie after Jesse Pollak's mea culpa

🏛️ 04:56 Why Kain compares Coinbase's culture to Google's money-fueled delusion

📣 26:50 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code UNCHAINED at https://cape.co/unchained

🪙 28:28 Brian Armstrong's memecoin PFP sparks a very online meltdown

📈 32:58 Why Taylor says the backlash to Brian's memecoin is manufactured

🕵️ 45:15 Why nearly every sizable crypto company has quietly had a DPRK IT worker

💻 47:37 The hidden risk: IT workers who get hacked themselves and expose you

🤖 53:39 An unreleased OpenAI model hacks Hugging Face to cheat on a benchmark

🔓 01:00:26 Why Kain says the model's logic for gaming the test almost makes sense

📄 01:04:10 Hugging Face discloses the hack before OpenAI even notices
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Patrick Witt, the White House's executive director for digital assets policy, calls in mid-episode to give the Chopping Block crew a live read on the CLARITY market structure bill!

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. This week they're joined mid-episode by Patrick Witt, Executive Director of the President's Council of Advisors for Digital Assets, who dialed in late because he was literally chasing down bill language.

First, Tarun explains how Gauntlet closed its biggest raise ever, $125M from SBI Holdings, the crypto OGs of Japan and early Ripple Labs backers, and what it cost him in suits and seven straight days of staying shaved (chairman Kitao-san reportedly listens). Then the crew dissects Balaji's Network School saga, from a Forest City ghost town in Malaysia to an immigration raid, a revoked license, and a sudden MOU-fueled pivot to Kazakhstan, with Tom's dreaded 'turkey chart' making an appearance. Finally, the main event: Patrick lays out the state of play on the CLARITY market structure bill, the August 7th recess deadline, the ~46% Polymarket coin flip, and the first-of-its-kind ethics provision, including the DOJ-versus-state-AG enforcement fight and whether crypto gets a second crack after midterms.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Patrick Witt dials in mid-episode after literally chasing bill language, laying out the CLARITY market structure bill and its August 7th recess deadline.

🔹 Polymarket puts CLARITY at roughly 46%, a coin flip, after passing the House 294-134 last July and stalling in the Senate.

🔹 The first-of-its-kind ethics provision bars officials and spouses from issuing digital assets, forcing existing holdings into blind trusts or divestment.

🔹 The live fight: White House wants DOJ enforcement, Democrats want 50 state attorneys general, which Patrick warns invites politically motivated lawsuits.

🔹 Tarun breaks down Gauntlet's $125M raise from SBI Holdings, his biggest ever, closed after seven straight days of suits and staying shaved in Japan.

🔹 SBI, the crypto OGs of Japan and early Ripple Labs backers, bets on capital shifting from syndicated VC toward TradFi giants funding DeFi liquidity.

🔹 Balaji's Network School goes from a Forest City ghost town in Malaysia to an immigration raid, a revoked license, and an MOU-fueled pivot to Kazakhstan.

🔹 Robert says Balaji 'picked the wrong dance partner' building a network state on foreign soil; Tom warns of the dreaded 'turkey chart.'

Hosts

⭐️ Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️ Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️ Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

⭐️ Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Guest

⭐️ Patrick Witt, Executive Director, President's Council of Advisors for Digital Assets

Disclosures

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

00:59 Tarun's $125M Gauntlet Raise from SBI Holdings

06:32 Balaji's Network School: Malaysia Raid to Kazakhstan Exit

13:57 Patrick Witt Joins: CLARITY Bill State of Play

16:14 The First-of-Its-Kind Presidential Ethics Provision

19:53 DOJ vs State Attorneys General Enforcement Fight

23:36 The Big Three: Ethics, Law Enforcement, and the Ag Title

30:54 Patrick's National Guard Deferral and Short-Handed Crypto Bench

33:11 Polymarket's Coin Flip and Post-Midterm Odds

39:04 After CLARITY: SBR Bill, Tax Provisions, and What's Next

42:44 Wrap: Hosts React to Robert's Hopium

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The CFTC pulled a power last used in the Carter era to rescue Kalshi. Katherine, Jessi, and Vy Le on what it means — plus Japan’s crypto tax cut and DTCC’s tokenization leap.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
(use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Kalshi had a rough week. Sued by Michigan, hit with a restraining order, then rescued by a CFTC emergency power invoked only four times in the agency’s history, most recently during Jimmy Carter’s Cold War grain embargo.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le untangle how a fight over sports event contracts became a battle over federal preemption, why Kalshi also pulled its flight cancellation contracts under public pressure, and the insider-trading allegation swirling around a Trump teleprompter operator.

They also cover Japan’s new financial instruments law, which cuts crypto’s tax rate from as high as 55% to a flat 20% and is already pulling Amazon Japan’s delivery drivers onto yen stablecoins. Then there’s DTCC’s live settlement of tokenized securities with JPMorgan, Goldman, and BlackRock, which Vy Le argues could end the era of synthetic wrapper tokens. And the Clarity Act, still stuck on ethics and yield disputes as the midterms eat into Congress’s calendar.

The episode closes on a rare bright note: pseudonymous investigator ZachXBT turning impersonation memecoins into charity donations for Venezuela’s earthquake victims.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

📱 00:40 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy-first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🎙️ 01:04 Kalshi's rough week begins: how a Michigan lawsuit over sports contracts became a federalism fight

🗂️ 06:34 Why the CFTC's break glass emergency power has only been invoked four times ever

⚖️ 14:40 Why Kalshi pulled its flight cancellation contracts under public backlash

🕵️ 18:40 The insider trading allegation involving Trump's longtime teleprompter

🇯🇵 21:39 Japan's new law cuts crypto taxes to a flat 20 percent

🏦 35:12 DTCC's live settlement of tokenized securities with JPMorgan, Goldman, and BlackRock

🏛️ 43:44 Why Clarity's odds are shrinking as the midterms eat into Congress's calendar

🤝 46:11 ZachXBT turns impersonation meme coins into charity for Venezuela's earthquake victims
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

📢 Bits + Bips has its own channel now — full episodes here: https://www.youtube.com/@Bitsandbips/ 

Austin Campbell's claim that Claude Fable 5 cracked the decades-old Jacobian conjecture opens onto a bigger question: why AI's real-world impact on health care is still lagging.

The conversation turns to battlefield drones in Ukraine, the national security stakes of AI guardrails, and why Chris Perkins thinks finance-style regulation could make AI more trustworthy, not less useful.

Hosts

Austin Campbell - Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia - Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins - Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Chapters:

🧠 00:36 Austin on what actually forces AI adoption in health care beyond the hype

🔢 02:02 Austin's claim that Claude Fable 5 solved the Jacobian conjecture, a 90-year-old math problem

🩺 03:21 Ram: doctors are already using AI for diagnostics, but the promise is still ahead of reality

💰 05:41 Why Ram says AI adoption is self financing, citing Eli Lilly

🛩️ 06:15 AI on the battlefield: Ukraine's drone-based warfare shift

🛡️ 07:23 Austin's national security question: is opting out of the AI race even possible

🏛️ 09:39 Chris makes the case for finance style, principles-based AI regulation

⚔️ 10:24 Austin: there is no way to opt out of the AI guardrails race

This clip is from a longer conversation on AI adoption, national security, and financial regulation. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/YN0Pje70YtE?si=HVVnRCmYt3Q-G_qc 

We go live every Monday at 4:30 pm ET - subscribe to catch it live. 

Sponsor:

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

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Lyn Alden raised $40M to launch Orange Juice, a holding company that buys cash-flowing businesses and layers Bitcoin on top, not another pure-play treasury bet.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Lyn Alden just raised $40 million to launch a Bitcoin-backed holding company that skips the trade most of crypto is chasing. Rather than build another pure-play Bitcoin treasury stock, Orange Juice buys cash-flowing, unglamorous businesses and layers a Bitcoin treasury on top at the parent-company level.

Lyn Alden, cofounder of Orange Juice and a partner at Ego Death Capital, frames it as a countercyclical alternative to procyclical treasury companies, and she does not spare Strategy from criticism.

She compares Orange Juice's structure to Berkshire Hathaway and argues Strategy let its dollar reserve fall too far, weighing in as Laura invokes Michael Saylor's 'sell a kidney' line and STRC's slide to near $85 against its $100 target. She also addresses BIP-110's inscription debate and Bitcoin's quantum computing threat, questioning whether the community’s resistance to change is a strength or a liability.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Lyn Alden - Cofounder of Orange Juice and Partner at Ego Death Capital

Timestamps

🍊 00:56 Lyn Alden lays out the $40M raise behind Orange Juice's core thesis

💵 08:06 Why Lyn Alden targets cash-flowing firms over VC backed startups

📱 11:17 Cape: get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

🏦 12:16 How keeping the Bitcoin treasury at the parent level avoids procyclical risk

🪖 25:37 How Orange Juice handles a bleeding company and Ruben Zweiban's Navy SEAL background

📈 32:15 Why Lyn says going public aids liquidity, retail access, and tax deferral

⚠️ 39:15 Why Lyn is critical of Strategy's capital structure and Saylor's kidney line

🗑️ 47:40 Why Lyn views Bitcoin inscriptions as spam despite BIP 110's technical limits

⚛️ 50:47 How Lyn assesses the quantum computing threat to Bitcoin's security
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

If you haven't yet, be sure to subscribe to Bits + Bips on its dedicated channels. Follow us on Apple Podcasts, YouTube, Spotify, X, Unchained and wherever you get your podcasts.

🔥 Apple Podcasts - https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/bits-bips/id1827931786 

🔥 YouTube - https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCuKiSkbYrUOOEEiYQEVPniQ 

🔥 Spotify - https://open.spotify.com/show/6aSBMrOyi33aVDCULJ9mjN?si=NTLk-jl5QGeytA6-2kxMVQ&nd=1&dlsi=42f0b13dd53c4ba0

🔥X - https://x.com/bitsandbips

🔥 Unchained - https://unchainedcrypto.com/bitsandbips/  

A White House meeting on Clarity Act ethics is happening in real time, Polymarket's odds on passage have slid from 75% in May to under 40%, and GSR's Andy Baehr explains why he still thinks a vote would catch the market off guard.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Andy Baehr - Managing Director of Asset Management at GSR

This clip is from a longer conversation on whether crypto's best week in months signals a real rally or another relief bounce. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/CQGwPj9bz3w

We go live every Thursday - subscribe to catch it live. 

Sponsor:

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained   (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🏛️ 00:00 Right now: a White House meeting on Clarity Act ethics, and why the stakes just got higher

🗳️ 00:24 The key math question: 60 votes means winning over seven Democrats

🚀 01:28 The August 7 deadline that could send the market into overdrive

🎙️ 02:38 Baehr's warning: the longer this drags on, the less likely it gets done

📉 03:22 Clarity Act odds have cratered from 75% to under 40% since May, what changed

💥 04:24 The market isn't pricing in passage, and Baehr thinks that's a mistake
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Cap's founders on shrinking their Stabledrop from $11M to $4M — plus a $23M hack traced toward North Korea, a BarnBridge governance exploit, and Kain's case to force weak L2s to become their own L1s.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Cap committed to a roughly 11 million dollar Stabledrop in February, promising early users stablecoins instead of tokens. A delayed token sale raised less than hoped, and the reward shrank to about 4 million, forcing a fast rewrite of who got paid.

Benjamin Sarquis Peillard, Founder and CEO of Cap, and Weso of Cap join Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to walk through a restructuring that made yield-token holders whole, left farmers without a windfall, and argue points programs are an uncapped marketing expense many projects cannot afford.

The conversation widens into EthSystems, a new Ethereum Foundation spinout backed by Joe Lubin, SharpLink and BitMine, Jesse Pollak handing Base product leadership to Cobie, Robinhood Chain's Morpho integration, and whether Ethereum mainnet undercharges L2s.

They revisit BarnBridge's SEC-era DAO structure, a dormant governance exploit, a MetaMask and Revoke.cash delegation tool, and a 23 million dollar Ostium hack Taylor traced toward North Korea.

Kain closes with a Three Mile Island analogy: complex systems fail not from one mistake, but from small shortcuts compounding at once.

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix

⁠⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:

Benjamin Sarquis Peillard - Founder and CEO of Cap

Weso - Co-Founder of Cap

Timestamps

🪂 01:30 Benjamin and Weso explain how Cap's Stabledrop plan fell apart post-TGE

💸 08:05 Weso on why uncapped points programs turn into runaway marketing spend

🐦 21:31 Kain and Taylor on crypto Twitter's algorithm flip after a year of exile

📱 24:17 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy-first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏛️ 25:09 Why EthSystems, the newest EF spinout, splits Kain on bullish or bearish

🤝 30:20 Taylor on Jesse handing Base app duties to Cobie and what it signals

🎰 36:28 Robinhood Chain's memecoin surge, Morpho ties, and the Cashcat backstory

⚖️ 41:17 Is Ethereum undercharging L2s? Kain makes the case for pushing costs to L1

🔓 55:51 BarnBridge's SEC-era DAO, this week's governance exploit, and the Revoke.cash fix that stops it

☢️ 01:11:31 The Ostium hack: North Korea-linked actor, stolen keys, oracle compromise

💥 01:26:24 Closing rapid-fire: Euler's recovery and an old Vyper compiler bug revisited
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Two weeks after launch, 85% of Robinhood Chain's trading is memecoins and just 1% is RWAs. Johann Kerbrat says that doesn’t change the strategy.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Robinhood CEO Vlad Tenev told CNBC on July 2 that real-world assets, not memecoins, were the future of crypto on Robinhood Chain. Two weeks after launch, the numbers disagree: roughly 85% of daily trading on the chain is memecoins, while tokenized RWAs sit at about 1%.

Johann Kerbrat, Vice President and General Manager of Robinhood Crypto, joins Laura Shin to argue the split is not a problem. He makes the case that building the chain permissionless was deliberate, and that memecoin trading through CashCat and PumpFun brings the liquidity RWAs will eventually need.

Kerbrat also defends building the chain's lending and margin system on USDG over USDC or Tether, walks through the separate, unshared liquidity instance behind Robinhood's new perps product with Lighter, and addresses Robinhood's 63% quarterly drop in crypto transaction revenue. His answer: Robinhood Chain was never meant to smooth out that swing, and the real test is whether tokenization can outrun regulation.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Johann Kerbrat - Vice President and General Manager of Robinhood Crypto

Timestamps

🐸 01:06 Why memecoins are 85% of Robinhood Chain's DEX volume, not RWAs

🚀 05:35 Why PumpFun listing Robinhood Chain tokens was the result of their strategy

🔐 09:33 Where Robinhood's responsibility ends and the permissionless chain begins

📣 11:12 Cape: Use code UNCHAINED for 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained

⚡ 16:17 Why Robinhood built a separate Lighter instance for its perps

💵 20:24 Why USDG, not USDC or Tether, backs Robinhood Chain's lending and margin

📉 23:23 Does the chain mitigate the 63% swing crypto can have on Robinhood's earnings?
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Nick Almond and Proph3t on ENS's treasury fight, the BonkDAO heist, and why Proph3t would not touch Venice's VVV token.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Nick Johnson, the founder of ENS Labs, used his own tokens to kill a vote renewing ENS DAO's Security Council, potentially clearing the way for a foundation to take over a treasury worth more than $100 million.

Nick Almond, head of governance at the Jito Foundation, and Proph3t, cofounder of MetaDAO, join Laura Shin to untangle what that move reveals about who should control a DAO's money, and whether voting was ever the right way to decide it.

They trace ENS cofounder Jeff Lau's warning that the treasury became a honeypot with zero accountability, and the collapsing voter turnout that let a 3% token stake decide the DAO's fate. Proph3t makes the case for MetaDAO's decision markets over voting entirely, while Nick argues curated delegates solve the same capture problem without giving up the vote. They also cover the $20 million BonkDAO heist, pulled off with one proposal and seven votes, and the backlash over Dragonfly's investment in Venice's VVV token.

Both guests agree DAOs are near a bottom. What comes next depends on whether anyone tries something new.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Nick Almond - Head of Governance at the Jito Foundation

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Proph3t - Co-founder of MetaDAO

Timestamps

🏛️ 01:06 Laura frames the DAO reckoning: disbandments, low turnout, and the Venice fight

📉 08:26 How ENS DAO's collapsing voter turnout let a 3% stake decide its fate

⚖️ 12:55 Proph3t on why voting is a cost, and how a 51% attack captures a DAO

🏦 19:11 Nick maps DAOs' next phase: substructures picked for expertise, not popularity

🍯 24:09 Why Jeff Lau called ENS's treasury plan a honeypot with zero accountability

📣 28:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🏗️ 29:49 Why founders like Nick Johnson get vilified for wanting DAOs to run efficiently

🗳️ 36:35 Why Nick Johnson's silent vote against ENS's Security Council reads as an attack

💰 41:34 How BonkDAO lost $20 million to one proposal backed by just seven votes

🧩 46:22 Why Proph3t would not buy Venice's VVV token despite defending its disclosures

🔮 56:45 Proph3t on MetaDAO's origin story: pro oversight, not pro governance
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

The Supreme Court just made it easier to fire SEC and CFTC commissioners. Katherine, Jessi, and Vy on why that could reset who controls crypto policy. Plus, the UK's new rulebook.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
(use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

The Supreme Court just tore up a 90-year-old precedent that kept independent-agency commissioners safe from a president's whims, and almost no one in crypto is talking about what it means for the SEC and the CFTC.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le trace how the ruling in Trump v. Slaughter changes who actually controls financial regulation. Then they cross the Atlantic to the UK's sweeping new crypto rulebook and the European Commission's move to expand MiCA just as its first version fully takes effect.

They also dig into a Cambridge report showing fighters from one of the world's most brutal terror groups using chatbots to troubleshoot weapons and plan attacks, and ask why there's no Section 230 for crypto or AI, only a growing pile of civil lawsuits testing where liability lands.

Jessi Brooks argues crypto's decade of learning to police neutral technology might be the only playbook AI has left to borrow.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps

💙 00:28 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy-first mobile service at⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠

🇬🇧 01:05 Why the UK just published a crypto rulebook few even noticed

🇪🇺 13:15 Why Brussels wants to expand MiCA to cover tokenized assets and stablecoins

⚖️ 24:57 How the Supreme Court handed presidents new power over the SEC and CFTC

🏛️ 33:47 The legal reasoning behind the ruling, and why the Fed board was spared

🤖 39:37 The AI segment: a Cambridge report on Boko Haram's chatbot fueled weapons unit

⚖️ 47:58 Why crypto and AI both lack a Section 230, and who ends up getting sued

🦎 52:20 The good news: how TRM traced $15 million in crypto tied to wildlife trafficking
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Austin Campbell draws a parallel between the AI data center backlash and the decades-long collapse of US nuclear power, then Sam Lyman of the Bitcoin Policy Institute puts real odds on whether the Clarity Act passes the Senate before August recess.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

Guest:

Sam Lyman - Head of Research at the Bitcoin Policy Institute

This clip is from a longer conversation on foreign funded opposition to AI data centers and the odds of the Clarity Act passing. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/-xbSniveaQU 

We go live every Monday - subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained  (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🏗️ 00:00 Austin compares the AI backlash to nuclear power's collapse, citing Indian Point

🧭 01:21 Sam calls nuclear the ideal analogy: a problem we solved, then banned

🏠 02:10 Why Sam says AI's real opposition comes from inside the house

👷 02:37 The blue-collar AI boom: construction jobs, electricians, and data centers

🗳️ 04:07 Ram says political leadership, not just technology, has to show up

🎯 05:15 Sam puts Clarity's odds at 70% before August recess

⏳ 06:55 Why the August recess deadline is the real driver of momentum

📉 07:38 Sam's odds drop to 35 to 40% if Congress doesn't act in the next few weeks
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Niklas Kunkel maps where the RWA market is heading next, from Centrifuge and Apollo's CLOs to Galaxy's first tokenized credit product, then turns to a cautionary tale: some SpaceX pre-IPO token buyers never actually owned the shares they thought they had.

Host:

Steven Ehrlich - Host of Bits + Bips and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:

Niklas Kunkel - Founder and CEO of Chronicle Labs

This clip is from a longer conversation on crypto oracles, tokenized real-world assets, and Chronicle Labs' work verifying them. Full episode here: https://youtu.be/HW9Cu_E8DnU 

We go live every week - subscribe to catch it live.

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters

🌍 00:00 Where the RWA market goes next, from the man building its plumbing: Niklas Kunkel

💰 00:44 The yield trade heating up: why CLOs like Centrifuge's JAAA and Apollo's Acred are suddenly everywhere

🌌 01:14 Galaxy's first tokenized CLO, and why it's a far bigger deal than it looks

🔍 01:56 Trust no one: how Chronicle checks Galaxy's loan book against its own custodian

🔁 03:04 The looping trick that turns a 7% CLO yield into 14% or 21%, and the risk hiding inside it

🏢 03:27 What's coming next: tokenized REITs and equities

🚀 05:28 The SpaceX pre-IPO token question Niklas keeps getting asked

📉 06:06 The catch nobody mentioned: why SpaceX token buyers never actually owned their shares
Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Robinhood Chain perps now run on Lighter. Vlad Novakovski maps the revenue split, the USDG collateral risk, and the race for a US perps license.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Robinhood Chain went live last week, and the perpetual futures powering it are from Lighter, the onchain exchange Robinhood backed before Lighter launched its token.

Vlad Novakovski, founder and CEO of Lighter, joins Laura Shin to unpack a partnership he says has been building since he and the Robinhood founder were high school classmates. He details a 50/50 revenue split, why USDG as collateral creates friction for market makers, and how a pending CFTC license would cover Robinhood's own front-end too.

Novakovski also addresses the crowded field forming around US perps, from Kalshi and Coinbase to Kraken and dYdX, and makes the case that onchain volume keeps gaining share even as crypto native tokens lag real world asset perps. His new seat on the CFTC Innovation Advisory Committee puts him in the room as regulators decide what a DEX has to look like to operate onshore.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vlad Novakovski - Founder and CEO of Lighter

Timestamps

🤝 01:28 Why Vlad calls the Robinhood Chain deal "12 years in the making" and how the revenue is split

🤓 03:40 How Robinhood perps differs from Lighter's own app

💸 05:03 What if means if USDG is the quote asset on Robinhood's perps and USDC is the quote asset on Lighter

💬 11:04 Novakovski on Lighter's Telegram Wallet deal vs Hyperliquid's builder codes

📣 12:50 Cape: Get 33% off six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

💼 13:44 Fidelity: Explore crypto and DeFi careers at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

📉 14:31 Why RWA perps are hitting highs while crypto native perp volume cools

⚠️ 18:00 How Lighter prices liquidation risk when tokenized stocks are collateral

🏛️ 21:14 Novakovski on the regulatory pathway DEXs need to move onshore
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Austin Griffith joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to unpack  BonkDAO's $20M governance heist, and Kain's case for giving founders more control.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠⁠Cape⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

A single wallet spent $4.4 million buying up Bonk tokens, then used that stake to push through a governance proposal that legally emptied BonkDAO's roughly $20 million treasury a week later, with almost no one watching the vote.

Austin Griffith, Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and founder of BuidlGuidl, joins Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to use the heist as a jumping-off point for Kain's real target: ENS. Kain argues founder Nick Johnson should retake control over building and product from the DAO, and makes the case that founder-led execution beats decentralized governance almost every time.

They also cover Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul and why Austin says it will barely change what he builds, the $1 AI audit he launched as a meme for x402 agent payments, Robinhood's new chain and the pay-to-play deals behind it, and why Kain now argues tokens are the wrong way to raise money.

If a founder with total conviction can outperform a DAO built to stop exactly that, the DAO experiment may be further from finished than anyone wants to admit.

Hosts:

⁠⁠Kain Warwick⁠⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix

⁠⁠Taylor Monahan⁠⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:

⁠Austin Griffith - Ethereum Foundation developer and creator of Scaffold-ETH and SpeedRun Ethereum, and founder of BuidlGuidl

Timestamps

🛠️ 01:32 Why Austin says Vitalik's Lean Ethereum overhaul barely changes his job

📅 08:21 Taylor on why the EF ships huge roadmaps but too little in the short term

🪓 12:56 Austin on surviving the EF's leaner reorg and the wave of departures

💵 15:43 How Austin turned a serious auditing tool into a viral meme

🤝 18:48 x402 skill files: why agents will soon pay other agents for on-tap skills

💙 25:44 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months of privacy first mobile service at https://cape.co/unchained

🚨 26:41 How one wallet legally voted its way to BonkDAO's $20M treasury

⚖️ 32:57 Why Kain thinks Nick Johnson and ENS should take power back from the DAO

🤖 55:29 Robinhood's new chain and Kain's take on crypto's pay-to-play problem

🪙 58:29 Why Kain says tokens are now the wrong tool to raise money
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Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter joins the Chopping Block crew to untangle one of crypto's oldest debates: what happens when tokens and equity coexist. The gang digs into the Venice/VVV controversy, breaks down Lighter's new Perps integration with Robinhood Chain and the fragmentation questions it raises, dissects the wild BonkDAO governance exploit, and reacts to the eye-popping $2.4 billion in crypto income disclosed in Trump's financial filings.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto, joined this week by special guest Vladimir Novakovski of Lighter.

The crew dives deep into the resurfaced tokens-versus-equity debate sparked by Dragonfly's investment in Venice and its VVV token, with Haseeb making the case that Venice is fundamentally different from Uniswap Labs style structures. Vlad explains how Lighter has approached the same dilemma through programmatic buybacks and a single C corp structure, and the group debates fiduciary duties, Delaware law, and what a merged DeFi/TradFi future for equity and tokens might look like. From there, they unpack Lighter's big Robinhood Chain announcement, including Lighter's new role as the native Perps engine inside Robinhood Wallet, and whether running a separate instance fragments liquidity. The episode wraps with a breakdown of the BonkDAO governance exploit that let an attacker vote themselves $20 million in tokens, and a reaction to Trump's staggering $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income revealed in his latest financial disclosure.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 Haseeb breaks down why Venice's VVV token is not equity and not a Uniswap style governance token in disguise

🔹 Vlad explains how Lighter's programmatic buybacks and single C corp structure align token holders and equity holders

🔹 The gang debates Delaware fiduciary law, shareholder primacy, and what happens when buyback capital runs dry

🔹 Vlad lays out the vision of tokenized equity merging with crypto tokens into a single on-chain asset

🔹 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal goes live with Lighter powering native Perps trading inside Robinhood Wallet

🔹 Vlad addresses concerns about liquidity fragmentation across separate Lighter instances

🔹 BonkDAO gets exploited as an attacker buys governance tokens and votes themselves $20 million

🔹 Robert compares the Bonk exploit to the infamous Beanstalk and Compound Humpty governance attacks

🔹 Trump's financial disclosure reveals $2.4 billion in pre-tax crypto income, sparking a debate on crypto's political future

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly

⭐️Robert Leshner, Founder & CEO of Superstate

Guest

⭐️Vladimir Novakovski, Founder of Lighter

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

03:40 Tokens vs equity: the Venice VVV debate begins

06:12 Fiduciary duty, Delaware law, and Lighter's C corp structure

08:00 What happens when buyback capital runs out

12:42 Why Venice launched a token in the first place

19:18 Comparing VVV to BNB and overloaded crypto assets

25:28 Lighter's Robinhood Chain deal and native Perps launch

37:02 BonkDAO governance exploit and the $20M vote

44:02 Lessons from Beanstalk and Compound's Humpty saga

47:09 Trump's $2.4B crypto income disclosure reactions

Disclosures
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For years, Michael Saylor's Strategy was the market's most dependable Bitcoin buyer. Recently, it has done the opposite.

Strategy just sold 3,588 Bitcoin for roughly $216 million, its largest single tranche yet, deepening the question of whether Michael Saylor has become a structural seller instead of a buyer.

Ram Ahluwalia, Austin Campbell, and Chris Perkins break down the STRC dividend mechanics behind the sale, the bull case for a catch-up trade, and the bear case if Bitcoin never rallies back.

Hosts:

Austin Campbell, Host of Bits + Bips, Founder of Zero Knowledge Group, and Adjunct Professor at NYU Stern

Ram Ahluwalia, Co-host of Bits + Bips and CEO of Lumida

Chris Perkins, Co-host of Bits + Bips and Head of Franklin Crypto

This clip is from a longer conversation on Strategy's Bitcoin sale, the stablecoin wars, and the token versus equity debate. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/H3z68SYty0k 

We go live every Monday at 4:30pm ET. Subscribe to catch it live.

Sponsor:

👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained  (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

💰 00:00 Strategy's record $216M Bitcoin sale: the numbers behind the disclosure

📉 01:14 mNAV falls below 1 for the first time, and the STRC dividend framework

🔁 02:31 Why Ram says selling Bitcoin beats issuing more MSTR shares

⚖️ 04:21 The bear case: what happens if Bitcoin doesn't rally from here

✈️ 05:24 Chris on Saylor's three-body problem after a week of conferences in London
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Strategy sold $260M of Bitcoin at a loss to fund dividends. Parker White of Apyx makes the case that it is smarter than it sounds.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Strategy just made its largest Bitcoin sale ever, offloading 3,588 BTC for $260 million at a loss to fund preferred dividends. Days earlier it unveiled a digital capital framework: a 12-month coverage rule, a hiked STRC dividend, and a $10 billion buyback plan. Markets calmed, but the moves raise a question: has Strategy stopped being a Bitcoin company?

Parker White, CFA, founding contributor and chief investment/operating officer at Apyx, pushes back on claims that funding dollar dividends with Bitcoin sales betrays Bitcoin's ethos, framing it as smart capital management. Shin presses him on whether investors now bet on Strategy's team, not Bitcoin.

They unpack short sellers' calculus, the 2027-2029 convertible cliff Matt Walsh pegs near $6.7 billion, and Apyx's apxUSD, a tokenized yield wrapper around STRC and SATA that depegged to 72 cents in the turmoil. White defends Apyx 2.0's redemption model against 'free put option' critics and responds to critic’s contention that Strategy resembles Terra/ Luna or FTX.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Parker White - CFA, Founding Contributor and Chief Investment/Operating Officer at Apyx

Timestamps

🏛️ 02:03 Parker on why Strategy's record Bitcoin sale to fund dividends is smart, not desperate

📋 06:24 How Strategy's new digital capital framework tries to calm the market's nerves

⚠️ 09:59 Laura and Parker spar over whether shorts or Strategy's own missteps sparked the selloff

💵 21:27 Whether prioritizing USD over Bitcoin marks a philosophical flip for Strategy

📣 26:28 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers at Fidelity today at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

🔐 27:10 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code UNCHAINED at https://cape.co/unchained

⏳ 28:09 Why Parker isn't worried about Strategy's looming $6.7 billion convert cliff

🧩 34:56 Parker on how Apyx wraps STRC and SATA into a yield bearing onchain asset

📉 36:38 What caused apxUSD's drop to as low as 72 cents and the liquidity pull

🛡️ 41:10 Parker defends Apyx 2.0's redemption rules against the free put option critics

🔄 47:53 Parker on why comparing Strategy to Terra Luna or GBTC misreads the risk
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Ari Redbord sits down with Katherine, Jessi, and Vy to talk about SEC clarity, the onshore perps boom, and DeFi's opsec problem — plus why the U.S. should hack North Korea back.

Thank you to our sponsor!

Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet,
it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier
that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they
happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained
(use code: UNCHAINED).

The hosts of DEX in the City spend every week breaking down crypto's legal fights. This time, they're the ones answering the questions.

Ari Redbord, Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs, sits down with Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le for a wide-ranging conversation on where crypto's regulatory and security battles are actually headed.

Vy traces her path from SEC enforcement to her case for "tech-neutral" rules: regulators should regulate outcomes, not technology. Katherine explains why DCMs have become crypto's hottest acronym, as true perps and prediction markets move onshore. And Jessi makes her push to stop calling North Korea's hacks "illicit finance" and start naming them a national security threat: Pyongyang, she notes, is funding a weapons program with stolen crypto. Ari goes further — if North Korea can steal hundreds of millions from DeFi, the U.S. should steal it back. Vy pushes back on the panic over the recent hacks: most, she argues, weren't broken smart contracts at all, just sloppy operational security.

The conversation covers SEC clarity, the CFTC's moment, DeFi security, on-chain privacy, and what it really takes to keep the ecosystem safe.

Host:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Ari Redbord - Global Head of Policy at TRM Labs and Host of TRM Talks

Hosts:

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠

⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps
🛡️ 02:29 OFAC's first IRGC-linked exchange sanctions on Zedcex and Zedxion

🧭 05:20 How Vy, Katherine, and Jessi went from the SEC, BigLaw, and DOJ into crypto

🎙️ 14:10 The origin story behind the DEX in the City name and its all-women cast

🏛️ 18:25 Vy on the SEC trading ambiguity for rules, and "tech-neutral" regulation

📈 22:36 Katherine on why DCMs are suddenly crypto's hottest acronym

💙 25:38 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

🩹 26:12 Jessi on reframing illicit finance around victims, not just enforcement

🔐 30:03 Jessi and Vy on Drift, Kelp, and why the recent hacks were ops failures

🕵️ 34:52 Katherine on why privacy is necessary for on-chain markets

🔮 40:04 Lightning round: Jessi on agentic finance, Katherine on perps, Vy on vaults
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Joseph Chalom lays out why Ethereum Institutional exists, how it differs from Etherealize, and why he thinks Michael Saylor is in a pickle.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsor!


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Fidelity⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Fidelity has been building in crypto and DeFi since 2014 — now they're hiring. Explore career opportunities at one of the most forward-thinking names in finance here: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠crypto.fidelitycareers.com⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠.


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Cape⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

Sharplink, BitMine, and Joe Lubin spent the past ten days launching two new organizations aimed at convincing Wall Street to build on Ethereum, backing them with commitments from more than fifty institutional supporters.

Joseph Chalom, CEO of Sharplink and a board member of the new Ethereum Institutional, joins Laura Shin to make the case that Ethereum's real competition isn't Solana or Canton. It's inertia: the reluctance of the world's largest institutions to touch financial rails they don't already trust.

Chalom walks through how Ethereum Institutional differs from Etherealize and the Enterprise Ethereum Alliance, why Robinhood building on Arbitrum still counts as a win for Ethereum, and what it would take for ETH to capture the value flowing through the network as tokenized real-world assets grow past $31 billion. He pushes back on claims that the Ethereum Foundation's culture is broken, then turns to Strategy's preferred stock drama and says plainly that Michael Saylor is in a pickle.

Host:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Laura Shin⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, Host / Unchained

Guests:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Joseph Chalom - CEO of Sharplink

Timestamps

🚀 01:33 Why Sharplink, BitMine, and Joe Lubin launched Ethereum Institutional

🧭 05:51 How Ethereum Institutional differs from Etherealize and the EEA

🃏 10:15 Chalom says institutional inertia, not Solana, is Ethereum's real threat

💙 14:40 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

💼 15:34 Fidelity: Explore crypto careers that could change your future at https://crypto.fidelitycareers.com

🧩 16:20 Why Chalom says Robinhood building on Arbitrum is still a win for Ethereum

⚡ 20:54 Does value actually flow back to ETH the token

🏛️ 24:33 Chalom pushes back on the idea that Ethereum's culture is broken

🤝 29:01 Why Chalom says Sharplink's shareholders and Ethereum's ecosystem are aligned

📉 32:18 Chalom says Michael Saylor is in a pickle over Strategy's preferred stock drama
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Nick Johnson's ENS vote sparked days of backlash. He and co-founder Alex Van de Sande join Uneasy Money to explain what actually happened.

========================================================

Thank you to our sponsors!

⁠Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at ⁠https://cape.co/unchained⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

========================================================

A routine two year renewal for the ENS DAO's Security Council failed on chain this week, and Nick Johnson, founder and CEO of ENS Labs, voted against it with roughly 50% of the active supply. Some users on X have since cast him as the villain seizing a $130 million treasury.

ENS co-founders Nick Johnson and Alex Van de Sande join Kain Warwick and Taylor Monahan to untangle what the vote means, and to defend a new proposal handing day-to-day treasury and protocol decisions to a foundation instead of the DAO.

They trace how ENS's governance fight mirrors Aave's, why its treasury has trailed a savings account, why Johnson never trusted ETH-weighted voting, and why his conviction in token governance has weakened.

The conversation lands on the question hanging over every well-funded DAO: once a protocol accumulates enough money to matter, can any voting mechanism decide who controls it?

Hosts:


⁠Kain Warwick⁠ - Host of Uneasy Money and Founder of Infinex and Synthetix


⁠Taylor Monahan⁠ - Co-host of Uneasy Money and Security Expert

Guests:


Nick Johnson - Founder and CEO of ENS Labs


Alex Van de Sande - Cofounder of ENS

Timestamps

🗳️ 02:14 Kain unpacks whether Nick really controls the ENS Security Council vote

🔥 06:37 Taylor pushes back: is the pile-on on Nick actually fair?

⚔️ 11:30 Kain calls it a DAO governance proxy war, echoing Aave's Stani fight

🍯 15:00 Nick on why a DAO treasury becomes a honeypot for capital allocation

🪙 28:01 Nick on why ETH-weighted voting would have left ENS open to a takeover

⚖️ 32:47 Nick clarifies what the ENS Labs proposal actually changes at the DAO

🏛️ 40:27 Nick argues the DAO should stop trying to run ENS day-to-day

📣 52:04 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months with code unchained at https://cape.co/unchained

🍴 58:56 Could a fork let Nick walk off with ENS's treasury? Alex says no

🎤 01:13:31 Taylor asks Nick and Alex point blank: why are you still here?
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David Lawant, Head of Research at Anchorage Digital, breaks down why Bitcoin's lack of native yield puts constant pressure on treasury companies, and makes the case that Michael Saylor's playbook is evolving rather than breaking.

Host:


Steven Ehrlich, Host of Bits + Bips: The Interview and Head of Research at Sharplink

Guest:


David Lawant, Head of Research at Anchorage Digital

This clip is from a longer conversation on Strategy's Stretch rescue plan and Bitcoin's options market. Full episode here: https://youtube.com/live/VwBxQTcJeXc 

New Bits + Bips interviews are posted regularly - subscribe to catch the next one.

Sponsor:

👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained (use code: UNCHAINED).

Chapters:

🎙️ 00:00 A new Citi report reveals why retail's crypto excitement has quietly collapsed

📉 00:17 Retail's bet on the Mag Seven just hit a multiyear low

😨 01:15 The unsettling reason retail fears Saylor becoming Bitcoin's buyer of last resort

🃏 01:44 Revisiting Saylor's infamous "sell your organs before your Bitcoin" line

🪙 02:34 The yield problem: why Bitcoin generates nothing, while Ethereum and Solana pay

📈 03:06 David on covered calls and the fast rise of synthetic yield strategies

🏛️ 04:39 Saylor, the OG who wrote the playbook on institutional Bitcoin accumulation

⚓ 06:28 Why David says Strategy is quietly weathering the storm better than anyone
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Regulators try to freeze illicit stablecoins, but the money's usually gone before the freeze lands. The hosts on why crypto sanctions keep failing.

Thanks to our sponsor!


👉 Cape: Your biggest crypto vulnerability isn't your wallet, it's your phone number. Cape is America's privacy-first mobile carrier that rotates your SIM identity daily and blocks SIM swaps before they happen. Get 33% off your first six months at⁠⁠ https://cape.co/unchained⁠⁠ (use code: UNCHAINED).

A new academic paper from researchers across several Chinese universities makes a striking claim: a stablecoin freeze isn't really a freeze until the transaction lands in a block — which means the freeze itself can be front-run, and sanctions enforcement becomes a market-structure problem.

Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos, Jessi Brooks, and Vy Le — three general counsels who live where law meets code — work through what it means that Tether and Circle now do much of the government's freezing onchain. The paper's numbers unsettle them: by its count, across eight years only nine freezes caught the money midway.

From there the hosts widen out: the SEC and CFTC's joint push to harmonize margin rules, your ChatGPT logs turning up as evidence in the courtroom, the Legion lawsuit testing whether export law can govern who logs in to an AI model, and the Bernstein ruling that made code protected speech.

They close with a sober CLARITY Act update, a new CBDC-ban roadblock tangled in an unrelated veto fight, and why the end of MiCA's transition period in Europe might be the week's real good news.

Hosts:


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Katherine Kirkpatrick Bos⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel. Previously held senior legal roles across DeFi and centralized exchanges.


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Jessi Brooks⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠, General Counsel at Ribbit Capital⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠


⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Vy Le⁠⁠ - Co-host of DEX in the City and General Counsel of Veda

Timestamps
🏛️ 02:32 KK on why the SEC and CFTC margin harmonization matters for crypto perps

🧊 11:39 Vy on ordering power as sanctioning power and the paper behind it

⚡ 14:43 Why a stablecoin freeze can itself be front run

⚖️ 22:09 The third party doctrine and the risk of deputizing crypto's neutral actors

📣 26:40 Cape: Get 33% off your first six months at https://cape.co/unchained

💻 27:36 Jessi on why AI in the courtroom is really a software control story

🚪 30:13 The Legion lawsuit, export law, and the Bernstein code-as-speech fight

🔒 37:14 ChatGPT logs as courtroom evidence and why your AI chats aren't private

🏔️ 42:20 The CLARITY Act update: why KK is even more bearish on passage

🇪🇺 47:48 Why MiCA's transition deadline is the week's crypto good news
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The crew is joined by Selini Capital’s Jordi Alexander to break down Open USD, the no-fee stablecoin from a 140-firm consortium spanning Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, all aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly. Plus Saylor’s new Digital Credit framework for MicroStrategy, the Ansem-fueled memecoin comeback, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate.

Welcome to The Chopping Block – where crypto insiders Haseeb Qureshi, Tom Schmidt, Tarun Chitra, and Robert Leshner chop it up about the latest in crypto. Joining the panel “at the moment of max pain” is Jordi Alexander, CIO of Selini Capital. First up: MicroStrategy in crisis, with MSTR down about 30% in five days and STRC hitting $71, and Saylor’s answer, a new Digital Credit framework with an 18-month cash cushion and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%. Then the headline story, Open USD: a no-fee stablecoin from a 140-member consortium including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, built to break the Circle and Tether duopoly.

The back half covers the memecoin comeback around the Ansem coin, and ENS reigniting the “DAOs are fake” debate after Nick Johnson single-handedly blocked a governance vote, before the crew debates whether consortia are just DAOs in a suit. Let’s get into it.

Listen to the episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Pods, Fountain, Podcast Addict, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, or on your favorite podcast platform.

Show highlights

🔹 MSTR falls about 30% in five days and STRC hits $71. Saylor answers with a new “Digital Credit” framework, an 18-month cash cushion, and a jumbo dividend hike to 12%

🔹 Jordi calls the death-spiral panic overblown: “Luna was worthless; you cannot print Bitcoin”

🔹 Tarun stands by “Luna for suits,” comparing STRC’s marketing to Anchor, right down to the AI ad of Saylor escaping the Titanic

🔹 Open USD launches: a no-fee, no-cap stablecoin backed by 140 firms including Visa, Mastercard, BlackRock, Google and Coinbase, aimed at the Circle and Tether duopoly

🔹 Circle drops about 7 to 8% on the news, and Tether’s Paolo Ardoino “welcomes” a real competitor, the same bit he ran on Libra

🔹 Haseeb’s take: a 140-member consortium is “a signed petition,” good for expanding the market but not for taking Tether’s or Circle’s turf

🔹 Tarun says it all comes down to the revenue share. Set the wrong rules and someone just farms the rake

🔹 The Ansem coin sparks a memecoin revival, a roughly $100M cap the market hasn’t seen in a long time

🔹 ENS reignites the DAO debate as Nick Johnson blocks a treasury restructuring with about 50% of the vote. Are consortia just DAOs in a suit?

Hosts

⭐️Haseeb Qureshi, Managing Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tom Schmidt, General Partner at Dragonfly 

⭐️Tarun Chitra, Managing Partner at Robot Ventures

Guest

⭐️Jordi Alexander, CEO of Selini Capital

Disclosures

Timestamps

00:00 Intro

01:07 The DeSci beef and Tarun’s Ponzi crusade

03:30 MicroStrategy in crisis: Saylor’s Digital Credit reset

09:34 Is STRC still “Luna for suits”?

19:24 Open USD: 140 firms take on Circle and Tether

29:42 Why a 140-member consortium is just a “signed petition”

42:13 Coinbase’s two masters: USDC vs Open USD

47:01 The memecoin comeback and the Ansem coin

51:57 ENS blows up the DAO: Nick Johnson blocks the vote

57:26 DAOs vs consortia, and can AI save governance?
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